On the 26th of May I was present at Steven Moffat's chat to Alan Yentob at Hay On Wye about his career.
Before I get started with part 2 of the conversation, for those who haven't been to one, I'd like to give a short summing up of what at literature festival is like. The big ones are mainly sprawling great events with thousands of tents crammed together over what could be a football pitch. Hundreds of people jostle about the place talking about all sorts of things from high art to the latest Bond film. The Moffat event took place in a large tent that could easily have hosted a production of Macbeth. The majority of the audience were crammed at the back almost as though they feared that being too close to Moffat might result in their extermination by a Dalek. Then, to the tune of some fine music the event began...
"AY: WHEN YOU TOOK OVER RESPONSIBILITY OF DOCTOR WHO, WHEN RUSSELL WENT OFF TO AMERICA, AND DID TORCHWOOD AND OTHER THINGS, WAS THAT A BIG DAY FOR YOU?"
SM: The big day was the offer of the job because thought it may sound strange I wasn't particularly standing in line waiting, I really, really loved working with Russell and Julie on those years of Doctor Who I adored it. Once a year I would arrive in Doctor Who and see my friends and they would be all pleased to see me and I would write a story and people would like it and I would wave to the crowd and go off. I adored it. I always got to be part of Doctor Who and feel I was quite an important part of Doctor Who but I also got to watch it as a viewer because I was always "Don't tell, I want to watch them on Saturday." So it is really nice, you're watching your favourite show and occasionally they are giving you a go at it. I liked that. When Russell said he was leaving the first thing I said was, "If I agree to do more episodes per year will you agree to stay on?" and he said "No". Nah, he said "That would help" but he had just had enough. So he offered me the job and I wasn't ready to say yes, surprisingly. I mean it was the job I had always wanted but Russell was so amazing at it and I had seen the workload and I know what it's like and I could have just carried on writing a story a year and wave and brush them off and that would be it. It took me months to say yes. I remember when this happened and I had decided whether to say yes I was on the phone to my Dad and I told him I had been offered Doctor Who and he said "well you're going to say yes". I said "I don't know if I am". He said "I'm going to send you a photograph" and he sent me a photograph of me reading Doctor Who and The Daleks at the age of ten or something like that. I thought, "He's right I have to do this show". I can't not do this job, If someone has to do it, it might as well be me.
"AY: THE OTHER THING OF COURSE, THIS JOB ENTAILS A LOT, THIS IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY THIS IS A SHOW THAT IS VERY CHALLENGING, LOTS OF SPECIAL EFFECTS."
SM: It is a big deal I mean I tend to be the one who gets pulled out and says all that but I never have done this alone, neither did Russell there are brilliant people Beth Willis, Piers and now Brian Minchin, lots of brilliant people. It takes an awful lot of people. Every hour of the day, every day of the week on Doctor Who, it is the most demanding television program on TV anywhere; you need that science fiction element. We have on standing set which we try and get out of as quickly as possible and two regular actors and that's it. Everything else we make it brand new, new cast every week, new set. It could be set on Earth and you think "Oh that's a simple one" but by the standards of any other TV show it isn't, you have to build a whole office, you have to build a whole flat. We did an episode called The Lodger [By Gareth Roberts and done for Series 5] which I rather liked and thought this will be a cheap on, it's set on Earth. It wasn't cheap at all we had to build a whole flat for these characters to live in. So it is always, the amount of new stuff you have to invent for every single new episode is exhausting and it is always what brings the audience back. They know they are going to get an awful lot of new stuff and this new stuff will not be available when you watch the next one. So yes it is the key.
"AY: THE OTHER THING, WHICH IS A REALLY INTERESTING THING THAT YOU ARE INVOLVED WITH, IS THE CASTING I MEAN, LET'S NOT EXAGGERATE IT BUT IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT MOMENT MAKING THIS DECISION EVERYONE YOU HAVE DONE HAS BEEN A HUGE SUCCESS. TO FOLLOW DAVID TENNANT AND THEN TO FOLLOW MATT IS A BIG THING. WHEN YOU GET TO MATT AND I MET MATT AT THE TIME, IT WAS A HUGE THING FOR A YOUNG ACTOR WHO HAD DONE VERY LITTLE AND SUDDENLY THE EYES OF THE WORLD WERE ON HIM. THERE WERE HUGE EXPECTATIONS OF HIM AS HE WAS FOLLOWING IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF SOMEBODY WHO HAD DONE A GREAT JOB."
SM: I think that was the toughest one in some ways because Chris announced the news or rather the news was leaked after the first episode of the new series went out so everybody knew his bags were packed already. There wasn't quite the bonding experience and he did it for thirteen episodes and at the end of that David took it one and did it for several years. He was a completely unfamiliar face at that point, imagine, a time when David Tennant's face was unfamiliar, he owned that role in a spectacular way and gave in a whole new cheeky, sexy performance. He became a national treasure and he didn't do it instantly he did it over time and so the idea that Doctor Who could go on at all in the absence of David and Russell was a huge question mark. I didn't realise until that they [The BBC] didn't think Doctor Who would succeed at all. I think there were plans to consider just ending it I think. I think it was Russell who said "You're not allowed to do away with it". He was quite frank. Again, I don't know the real details of that. That seemed to be the case. So having offered me the job and then worked very hard and almost successfully, almost successful to persuade David to stay on, I remember having drawn up all sorts of plans about what to done once he gave up and I sent him a very temperate email to the casting and said "Look, there all 27!" Nobody at 27 can play this part; David was a bit young for it. Frankly it should be someone over forty now.
"AY: ALL OF THE EARLIER DOCTORS WERE OLDER MEN WITH THE EXCEPTION OF PETER DAVISON, THEY WERE ALL OLDER MEN. "
SM: And there is a reason for that. He seems to be the embodiment of the senior man. He needs to behave like the student but look like the senior consultant, that's what he had to have I think. I was cross with these interview magicians, quite cross really I said "We are seeing too many young actor, he's got to flirt with Alex Kingston he mustn't look like he's got caught in her teeth". Do you know what, I was mostly right, mostly right. They came in and they were good but you just thought "No, that's not The Doctor." But Matt Smith comes in, and this is what happens when you get casting right, they tell you what the part is. The moment Matt started saying that dialogue and his strange mannerisms and, sorry Matt, but his extraordinary face. He was like a hot young guy but he also sort of looked like a barmy uncle he talks to you like it as well, he still talks to me in a fatherly way. He's the complete mix, we got a crazed old boffin definitely about a hundred and a hot young bloke! Also and insanely good actor I do remember saying, that moment that he left and I said to Andy Price, "I really like him, what age is he?" And he said "Twenty Six". "At least he's not 27!"
"AY: WHAT HAD HE DONE, HE'D DONE ALMOST NOTHING?"
SM: He had, he'd got his first job after he left drama school and from then on he'd been in television, he's been in film, he'd won an award at the theatre. In the industry everyone was saying "Matt Smith is going to be a star". They were saying "This boy is going places". Had we had auditioned The Doctor a year later he would have been off somewhere else. So it would have happened for him anyway, it's not like we picked him out of thin air and made him special, he was special and he brought the special quality to Doctor Who. I mean what I did in casting him was easy, brilliance is easy to spot you say "Oh that's bloody brilliant".
"AY: WELL LET'S JUMP TO THE NEXT ONE, BECAUSE THAT IS ANOTHER ONE, THAT'S A LEAP AWAY. I MEAN EVERYONE KNOWS PETER AS AN ACTOR BUT HE'S ALSO A DIRECTOR A WRITER. BUT THIS IS ANOTHER GENERATION ALTOGETHER. BACK TO A DIFFERENT GENERATION, IT'S A BOLD STEP."
SM: Well it's sort of bold but on the other hand can you imagine if we had cast another handsome yet quirky young man, with entertaining hair? Well that would have been it, people would have said "That's it, that's what Doctor Who is." We would have found somebody and people would have liked him and it would have been great but it would have made the show somehow more ordinary. It's like you start to work out how the joke is working and you figure out what is going on behind the scenes and it is never as magic again. We've got a part that can be played by anyone. From a twenty year old to a seventy year old, which John Hurt did, you've got to use that flexibility. The other thing is Peter Capaldi just kept popping into my head. He did, I knew he was a Doctor Who fan, he's a real proper fan and he would always come up to me at various industry events and insist on talking to me about Doctor Who while I was trying to talk about The Thick Of It. I knew he was into it and a part of me thought "What if nobody just asks? What if nobody just asks him if he'll do it?" And the funny thing is I'd asked Mark Gattis "Who would you cast as The Doctor?" and he wacked off a brilliant list and at the top of it was Peter Capaldi so it was like everyone was handing him to me and I mentioned it to Brian and he said "Yes that could be brilliant, it would be very different. " So I auditioned him in complete secrecy, I got him round to my house and he auditioned in there as The Doctor. He was the only person being auditioned and he carried it off and he was brilliant and of course he was brilliant he's Peter Capaldi, he's always brilliant. I said of course were going to cast him though what are the BBC going to think are they "Yes, but we need someone younger with sexier hair" and we sent it off and they said yes. It was at the same time as me saying about the show itself that it needs changing. I mean it is the hardest thing when you realise your clever new idea is your very old idea. We hadn't made much of a change to Doctor Who since it came back in 2005 and I just felt "It needs to be a bit more different now". It needs to be surprising again, we've got the hang of it, and we need to change it the rhythm has to alter. It has, it's quite a different show now. I think it is rather wonderful like that and frankly it is a crime that I don't get to write the reviews.
"AY: I HAVE TO SAY THAT I THINK SHERLOCK IS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS I'VE SEEN IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, IT IS ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC."
SM: You do have to say that because you're interviewing me.
"AY: I WONDER WHERE THIS CAME FROM AND THE FACT YOU'RE TAKING VERY WELL-KNOWN CHARACTERS ON, LIKE WITH WHO, BUT THIS TIME YOU ARE MAKING QUITE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO THE WAY THEY MAY BE SEEN. YOU'RE BRINGING THEM RIGHT INTO THE MODERN WORLD AND YOU ARE DOING THIS IN COLLABORATION WITH MARK GATTIS. IT IS INTERESTING THE PARTNERSHIP OF YOU AND RUSSELL T AND YOU AND MARK, NOT WITH ONE VOICE BUT YOU'RE AIM IS TO BOUNCE OFF EACH OTHER IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND TO HAVE THE SAME SENSIBILITY. WHO WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO SAY "LET'S DO SHERLOCK"?"
SM: It worked like this, Mark and I often go to Doctor Who read-through's together on the train to Cardiff and principle, because Mark is so well known people start listening to our conservations, on the train because we talk about Doctor Who and people want to know about Doctor Who. However one of our conversations got live blogged on a train so obviously we couldn't talk about Doctor Who because Mark and me, we live and breathe Doctor Who. So we switched to out other obsession which is Sherlock Holmes, we are huge fanboys of Sherlock Holmes and other time, and this is over months and years, we admitted that our favourite Sherlock Holmes films were the updated Basil Rathbone/Nigel Bruce films. While they are heretical they seem to capture more of the joy and silliness of the stories than some of the other adaptations. So we sat there and thought "Someone is gonna do that, someone is gonna do that and we'll be cross because it wasn't us." And you'd think at the next point we would have an epiphany and have an idea but no. We just got off the train and said "That's a shame". After some years I mentioned it to Sue and I remember sitting outside and saying "Me and Mark have got this great idea but someone else is going to do it". And she said "What is it?" and I told her and she said "Why don't you do it? Ahhhh! We're big successes in television; we can do things like that!" So we went and pitched it and we had this huge, elaborate pitch worked out, I said were determined for it to be the longest pitch of all time. They just said yes when we said updated Sherlock Holmes and we went "What! No, you're going to listen to all of it!" And so they did and so we went and made a pilot.
"AY: SO THIS IDEA OF BRINGING IT, OBVIOUSLY YOU HAD THESE TWO ICONIC CHARACTERS YOU CAN SEE THEIR DISSIMILARITIES AND THEY ARE CLEVER AND FUNNY AND DARK AND WISE AND IT ENGAGES NOT JUST WITH THE WORLD OF DOCTOR WHO IN THE PRESENT BUT ALSO THE FUTURE IT TO THE TECHNOLOGY AND THE IDEAS. HOW DO YOU WORK TOGETHER, YOU AND MARK DO YOU SIT DOWN AND SORT OF DIG IT UP"
SM: Well it's very much like that train journey, we're mad enthusiasts, we just sit down and have a chat about it and sometimes those chats happen and we are talking about something else. We decide on the shape of the series and what's going to happen and what will be a cool thing to happen there and there and at a certain point one of us will curve towards a particular story but we always do it so it doesn't matter which one of us does it. We have on a few occasions now just sat together and written for a while now but quite often we'll just stop and rush off and watch something. I remember writing the last scene of The Reichenbach Fall, where Mortiarty and Sherlock are in confrontation on the set, we just got a laptop on set and just sat writing chortling over this laptop.
"AY: I SHOULD JUST SAY, STEVEN ARRIVED FROM LONDON AND I THOUGHT WE WOULD SIT DOWN AND CHAT AND HE WAS SITTING THERE, LAPTOP IN FRONT OF HIM WRITING A SCRIPT AND HE SAID "I'M SORRY ABOUT THIS I'VE GOT TO GET THIS FINISHED". ARE YOU ALWAYS LIKE THAT?"
SM: Yeah, there is an awful lot to be done and Doctor Who particularly, you think I'd know be now, is a monster. It's huge! It's none stop. Every morning I go to check my emails and I go "No, what's it going to be... OH MY GOD!" Somewhere along the lines I remember I've got to write the next one as well so I just leave the writing to every single gap and it's just none stop.
"AY: WHAT I JUST LOVE ABOUT IT IS THE LANGUAGE, IT'S JUST GOT THAT ORIGINALITY AND SENSIBILITY OF LANGUAGE, WHEN SHERLOCK SPEAKS, WHEN BENEDICT SPEAKS YOU CAN HEAR HIS BRAIN TICKING YOU CAN SEE WHAT IS GOING ON. IT GOT HUGE FANS ALL OVER THE WORLD."
SM: It was just a huge success over night and you don't often see that happen when someone goes from nowhere to being a huge international movie star. It can be quite annoying too when you're trying to schedule the damn show."
"WILL BARBER-TAYLOR HAS THE GIFT OF GETTING GOOD FOLK TO TALK TO HIM. WHEN HE'S NOT INTERVIEWING PEOPLE HE CAN BE FOUND ON TWITTER @BLACKADDER345."
"Images courtesy of the BBC and IMDB.com"
"Sherlock is available to buy here:"